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Forum » EYE Clan Forum » Questions and Suggestions » A plugin for headshot on server ?
A plugin for headshot on server ?
TuralyonDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 11:31 AM | Message # 16
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An arrow that hits the toe does deal less damage, Don - just the hitbox for it is small.

Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
LimfiDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 11:36 AM | Message # 17
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Lets think that the mages are out of this..for now about the archers:
Quote (Jilako)
About a plugin on headshot, another thing we could do would be to add a graphical effect on the screen of persons instead of adding damages (such as a blur effect for some seconds), that wouldn't ruin the game and make it a bit more realistic i think


100 % agree
That was my idea


I AM NOOB AND I AM PROUD !
 
TuralyonDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 12:10 PM | Message # 18
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Quote (Limfi)
100 % agree
That was my idea

Quote (Turalyon)
I'd advise against blur effects. Certain effects make people more susceptible to them than others (poison effect for one). Some (like me) have a glitch that when we receive any form of damage (so that the red circle would appear), the screen goes completely dark, duration depending on the height of the damage. I think this would only make things worse graphical-wise.

I just tested the poison effects by lowering graphics and enabling different OpenGL modes on my and my step-father's computer.
So, lower the graphic, less the poison effects you.
Less different blue colors your graphical card recognizes, the less poison effect you will have.
The more aliasing you have, less the poison effect you have.
Another thing is also by your gama colors, they effect these poison effects as well.

So unless you want certain people having a complete visual or barely any whereas others would have it completely blurry, I'd strongly advise not to go in this direction.


Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
FuzzDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 12:56 PM | Message # 19
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I'd rather have the headshot than the knockback or the stun. But i'm still against either.

Turalyon - "Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy had no hair, so fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he!?"
 
TuralyonDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 1:36 PM | Message # 20
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I think this is the needed change if we want to keep the side-hits and Priest without nerfing.

Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
JilakoDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 3:00 PM | Message # 21
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Well, if we don't make it overpowered (so, the damages given by tura would be fine i think for exemple,except that i'd put drill arrow = kill when max drawn, the enem is getting his brain totally drilled!) it can be pretty nice idea to compensate the sidehits, and it'll make archer class more interesting with the challenge of headshots.

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it would be like saying melee should be able to decapitate it's opponent, it's retarded, sorry.

A bit like when a warrior stances your back (or your front, in my case..) and does 80dmg? tongue

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Archers 2-shot, mages 2-shot, they can both hit any melee, even shielded warrior or safeguarded warrior, or each other. I don't see why they should be given headshot

Warrior can one shot and two shot, assas can instant kill many people with bombs, and don't forget that for archer to be able to do high damage with drill or triple arrow, it'll cost him a lot of points, you usually need level 8 as archer before being able to use drill in an effective way.
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an archer fires so damn fast, that even a warrior cant stance quicker

If you keep turning around him while stancing, you can success to dodge his arrows and even make sidehits/backhits, and you can rush in as tur does with last stand.

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I don't disagree with it's the lass lethal class in all of dm (archer), but if we make headshot available for archer etc, then who will be the less lethal class then? Considering the less lethal class is still pretty lethal when it comes to it...

Eeeee...It's a fps game, don't forget it, not a Little Pony game, the aim of balancing isn't to have a class which would be the least lethal.
Also, while training, once, play archer and you'll see how hard it is to have just a kill when enemies are stoneskined and that you hit for 30 dmg when MAX drawn. The headshot wouldn't add much damages, but it'd still be an appreciated bonus.


L'enfer, c'est les autres.
 
HellDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 4:12 PM | Message # 22
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Quote (Turalyon)
"A little bit easier"? Lol.
And Archers fire a little faster than a Mage can with his Fireball - oh and, he can control it back to the enemy if he misses him the first time *points at curving Fireballs that most good Mages use*.
Whereas Mages will be able to fire at you about 42 Fireballs before they go out of Mana whereas you will need to wait to get Mana after shooting 3-4 drill arrows. And yeah, Fireball on direct hit deals the same or higher amount of damage as drill arrow does.

Quote (Turalyon)
If you can't live without that, then I see no reason why would we keep side-hits on - they do in fact increase Warrior's damage by what, 20-30 damage? Archer is the only class that doesn't benefit from side-hits ... I think that skill-shot that we call "headshot" would make up for it.

Quote (Turalyon)
Archer will still be a fragile class which (and is the only class that can't) can't block/parry melee attacks, they will still do exactly the same damage to other classes, but if they actually manage to hit you directly in the head, then I think they should be rewarded for the extra damage.

Quote (Jilako)
it can be pretty nice idea to compensate the sidehits, and it'll make archer class more interesting with the challenge of headshots.

Quote (Jilako)
Warrior can one shot and two shot, assas can instant kill many people with bombs, and don't forget that for archer to be able to do high damage with drill or triple arrow, it'll cost him a lot of points, you usually need level 8 as archer before being able to use drill in an effective way.

Quote (Jilako)
The headshot wouldn't add much damages, but it'd still be an appreciated bonus.

Signed xD Absolutely agree. tongue


I'm hot, u r not!
 
MightyMalcolmDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 6:20 PM | Message # 23
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Quote (Jilako)
it can be pretty nice idea to compensate the sidehits, and it'll make archer class more interesting with the challenge of headshots.
seeing it from that perspective, i totally am for headshots!

Quote
19:15 - [TSH]MightyMalcolm: [...] would it be possible, for example, to add headshots for archers (and only for archers?
19:15 - Luna Inverse: yes
19:15 - Luna Inverse: should be possible
19:16 - Luna Inverse: i am even working on it ;)


Applause from the audience, please!

Message edited by MightyMalcolm - Monday, 2011-07-04, 6:21 PM
 
TuralyonDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 6:28 PM | Message # 24
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And the hitbox for it would not be too big, right?

Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
MightyMalcolmDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 7:49 PM | Message # 25
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i guess we could make the hitbox as big or as small as we'd like to.

but, and this could be bad or good news, i accidently gave luna the idea what things would look like if we totally converted DM to a self-made mod. now he is working on that xDDD


Applause from the audience, please!
 
FuzzDate: Monday, 2011-07-04, 11:12 PM | Message # 26
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Quote
A bit like when a warrior stances your back (or your front, in my case..) and does 80dmg?


A warrior still has to get close, and has no stealth, so you should be able to hear him... Secondly its still a 2-shot, like the archers do, so your argument doesn't help anything.

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Warrior can one shot and two shot, assas can instant kill many people with bombs, and don't forget that for archer to be able to do high damage with drill or triple arrow, it'll cost him a lot of points, you usually need level 8 as archer before being able to use drill in an effective way.


to bomb effectively as assassin you need lvl 7 as well, same goes for warrior if you think of leap, and since your view most like is melee vs ranged, I guess charge is out of the picture.

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If you keep turning around him while stancing, you can success to dodge his arrows and even make sidehits/backhits, and you can rush in as tur does with last stand.


now you're using if's and buts, which makes your argument invalid, I can say what if, and but the archer is good at kiting? that should make up for the dodging. Furthermore, last stand is an effect that only is on for a certain amount of time, and when it wears out you lose the amount of hp you gained. It's still kitable, and killable.

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Eeeee...It's a fps game, don't forget it, not a Little Pony game, the aim of balancing isn't to have a class which would be the least lethal.
Also, while training, once, play archer and you'll see how hard it is to have just a kill when enemies are stoneskined and that you hit for 30 dmg when MAX drawn. The headshot wouldn't add much damages, but it'd still be an appreciated bonus.


I don't know the pony game you speak of, so I won't comment on the balance in that, but it sounds horrible. As for FPS games. They all have their way of balancing. Making classes or weapons less lethal. Let's take counter-strike as an example. AK-47 is fully automatic and oneshots in the face, now the sniper called AWP, also oneshots in the head, but also on any other body-part, such as legs and stomach, where as the AK-47 doesn't, it takes a few shots. So all fps games has less lethal weapons / classes. It doesn't mean you can't be destructive when you're good with them. And there are many different weapons which 2 shots etc. It's all up to what you choose, and it's all good in it's made situation.


Turalyon - "Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy had no hair, so fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he!?"

Message edited by Fuzz - Monday, 2011-07-04, 11:17 PM
 
TuralyonDate: Tuesday, 2011-07-05, 0:59 AM | Message # 27
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Quote (Fuzz)
now you're using if's and buts, which makes your argument invalid

Wrong. Do your homework - Fallacies

Quote (Fuzz)
to bomb effectively as assassin you need lvl 7 as well, same goes for warrior if you think of leap

Level 5.

Quote (Fuzz)
A warrior still has to get close, and has no stealth, so you should be able to hear him...

Quote (Fuzz)
Furthermore, last stand is an effect that only is on for a certain amount of time, and when it wears out you lose the amount of hp you gained. It's still kitable, and killable.

I think the chances of you kiting the Warrior as Archer that long or avoid him killing you is approximate 13.42%
Plus, who is making "ifs" and "buts" now?

Quote (Fuzz)
I don't know the pony game you speak of, so I won't comment on the balance in that, but it sounds horrible. As for FPS games. They all have their way of balancing. Making classes or weapons less lethal. Let's take counter-strike as an example. AK-47 is fully automatic and oneshots in the face, now the sniper called AWP, also oneshots in the head, but also on any other body-part, such as legs and stomach, where as the AK-47 doesn't, it takes a few shots. So all fps games has less lethal weapons / classes. It doesn't mean you can't be destructive when you're good with them. And there are many different weapons which 2 shots etc. It's all up to what you choose, and it's all good in it's made situation.

Lol at your first sentence - did you write that on purpose or you have a hard time understanding sarcasm?
As for Counter-Strike ... an excellent point! However, you skipped the most vital part; AWP can't shoot as fast as AK-47 does. And besides, AK-47 can one-shot someone only if someone makes a headshot *winks*.

Why I'm writing all this down?
The arguments are very simple yet you've managed to miss them or intentionally ignore them.
Archer is the only class that has no melee protection. Not even a staff to parry/block an attack from other classes. Now that side-hits are enabled, it's even worse for them.
And no, them being able to instant kill someone (IF they get close) with double/triple arrow, or dealing nice bursts of damage from distance, is NOT a good argument.
Both Priest and Mage (which I think I might have to remind some of you, are not melee classes) have twice as easy job as the Archer does. And they still have a staff to defend themselves (and yes, I do make it sound important; that's because it is - just not many people use it to that extent).
Exactly what Jilako said, you should play Archer on our next training and see how well it goes (that is, not same as the last time where there were no Mages or Priests).


Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
HellDate: Tuesday, 2011-07-05, 1:04 AM | Message # 28
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Quote (Turalyon)
And they still have a staff to defend themselves

Haha you underestimate power of staff xDD Some use it kinda offensively tongue


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MightyMalcolmDate: Tuesday, 2011-07-05, 1:25 AM | Message # 29
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Quote (Hell)
Haha you underestimate power of staff xDD Some use it kinda offensively
must be weird ppl O.o anyway, what is the problem? xD headshot = side/backhits for archer. life can be so simple ^.^


Applause from the audience, please!
 
FuzzDate: Tuesday, 2011-07-05, 2:08 AM | Message # 30
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Quote
Lol at your first sentence - did you write that on purpose or you have a hard time understanding sarcasm?
As for Counter-Strike ... an excellent point! However, you skipped the most vital part; AWP can't shoot as fast as AK-47 does. And besides, AK-47 can one-shot someone only if someone makes a headshot *winks*.


That was my sarcasm, rofl. And 2ndly I left out the speed of the AK-47 as well as many other vital thing, because I wanted to narrow it down and keep it simple. My point was that AWP is very deadly at long range (just as the archer), where as if they get caught by a guy with an AK-47 in close range, the AWP still has a chance, but the AK-47 sure as hell is in advantage. I could write a 283 pages long novel, but I don't want to.

Also an assassin bombing as level 5 is not good. You will have to spend early points in bombs, which will mean you lack cloaking, sprinting, or stealthing, all vital skills for the assassin. Since you're not a warrior with the same defensive opportunities, (shield for archers, safeguard for mages) you can't simply run around bombing, at least effectively. (And I'm always taking skilled players vs skilled players as my examples - just as you do Turalyon, so please don't go with what if, and but.

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I think the chances of you kiting the Warrior as Archer that long or avoid him killing you is approximate 13.42%
Plus, who is making "ifs" and "buts" now?


It was a reply, because I said I could do it as well, and I did. And yes it is hard to kill a warrior under the effect of last stand, but it is hard for any class, not just achers. I'd also like to know where you got the percentage of survivability, or chances of winning, considering bramble arrow and other things, such as environment. You might also want to quote the whole text, so you get the actual context.
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now you're using if's and buts, which makes your argument invalid, I can say what if, and but the archer is good at kiting? that should make up for the dodging. Furthermore, last stand is an effect that only is on for a certain amount of time, and when it wears out you lose the amount of hp you gained. It's still kitable, and killable.


The part I wanted to highlight is "I can say what if, and but" - and it's what I did.

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Archer is the only class that has no melee protection. Not even a staff to parry/block an attack from other classes. Now that side-hits are enabled, it's even worse for them.

Yet they shoot faster than any other ranged class, and the attack based on it, is faster than actual melee stances, which is the only way to "control" the archer during a battle and that is if your so lucky to be a warrior to face them, where as assassin has no way of controlling the archers draw of the arrow with stance, he has one option and it's, "be quick - or be dead".

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And no, them being able to instant kill someone (IF they get close) with double/triple arrow, or dealing nice bursts of damage from distance, is NOT a good argument.

Then i guess leap, and 80 damage in the back isn't a good argument either.

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Both Priest and Mage (which I think I might have to remind some of you, are not melee classes) have twice as easy job as the Archer does. And they still have a staff to defend themselves.


This might just be me, but i believe that staff parry, only reduces the damage of staff damage, not daggers, not swords. And that staff stances clangs vs another staff stance, not staff stance, vs dagger stance, or staff stance vs sword stance, so they still have a hard time vs melee classes, no? The only positive sign I can see from a staff is the offensive use from it, especially when out of mana, or having some other beneficial situation, such as sneaking up from behind or so. That, and the parry to reduce damage from another staff blow, or staff stance vs staff stance to cancel the outcomming damages.
About them having an easier job... To some extend I would agree, but it really depends on the situation at hand, but in general, yes.

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(and yes, I do make it sound important; that's because it is - just not many people use it to that extent).


I also don't see people not using archers arrows to it's fullest extend, and this is myself included, I'm not even close to be one of the good archers out there, but I get the basics.

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Exactly what Jilako said, you should play Archer on our next training and see how well it goes (that is, not same as the last time where there were no Mages or Priests).


I'd love to. Although I know my archery isn't the greatest and that I will get my ass kicked blue and yellow still won't change my mind about this headshot topic.

Added (2011-07-05, 2:08 Am)
---------------------------------------------

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must be weird ppl O.o anyway, what is the problem? xD headshot = side/backhits for archer. life can be so simple ^.^


There is a reason why sidehit and backhit wasn't implemented for archers, and this is ONE of the things i think the developers of Dark Messiah did right, (Yes I think they did something right, weird huh?) I still like the changes we did to the game so far, but I think we should keep the archer balance as it is, or at least test the headshot very briefly so we know what we're up against. I'm still against it with every gene in my body though.


Turalyon - "Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy had no hair, so fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he!?"

Message edited by Fuzz - Tuesday, 2011-07-05, 2:02 AM
 
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