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Forum » Conversation » Something about DMoMM » Assassin's daggers
Assassin's daggers
JilakoDate: Friday, 2011-05-06, 10:38 PM | Message # 1
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I'm opening this thread to know your opinion about a possible buff on assassin's special daggers (so, poison daggers and bleed daggers). The only good thing that I've seen on rb is that they've made theses daggers interesting to play. I mean , by default, the daggers are pretty..crappy, they burn your mana in 4 hits, so with the awesome telebacks, lags etc.., you'll be likely to have burn your whole mana without even hitting the enemy. By having played special daggers on rb and often on trainings when I was still able to play melee, I can tell that they're really fun to play but due to the mana cost, it really needs skills as assassin to be able to play them properly.

(Ps: i was too lazy to writes this thread as a poll, so you'll have to make senteces :p)


L'enfer, c'est les autres.
 
DonSpeedyDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 0:33 AM | Message # 2
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I agree that the daggers (poison and bleeding) actually just kill your mana, making it impossible to use bomb or cloak for some time without being acutally useful ... I think it would be fun to have like a poison dagger but that makes the enemy team friendly and the own team the enemy to the victim, but without letting him realize it instantly, like an unnoticed stich. Would be fun to then watch your foe start to attack his teammates for you ^^
I hope that made sence, but in my mind it did and sounded actually quite nice o,o
 
JilakoDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 8:23 AM | Message # 3
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If I've understood well, poison already does that on casual warriors, they slash everything around, even allies, when poisoned tongue

L'enfer, c'est les autres.
 
DonSpeedyDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 8:50 AM | Message # 4
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Quote (Jilako)
If I've understood well, poison already does that on casual warriors, they slash everything around, even allies, when poisoned tongue

True ^^ But I'd prefere something more ... descreet tongue
 
TuralyonDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 9:15 AM | Message # 5
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About a change like that, I'm not sure I can already give my opinion about it.
I can either see it overpowered, or completely balanced and fun.

The poison from poison daggers last way longer than poison arrow from Archer does. It also could be just me, but I think the effect is even greater from poison daggers than poison arrow.
Second of all, it's easier to hit an enemy with daggers (either a slash or a stance), than as Archer with poison arrow (considering that you're distinguishing between normal and poison daggers - and which can also proc when two Assassins strike at the same time to block each other's stance).
As for Mortal Strike, I won't even start saying that if you make one successful hit with them, you've basically almost killed the opponent, since 1.) he'll have his vision blurred when he stops bleeding 2.) he can't even jump from higher levels in order to survive 3.) any touch kills him.

On the other hand, those daggers rarely appear in-game, so I guess there should be something done to prevent that.
I would start by reducing the mana cost on poison daggers and see how that goes. If it seems overpowered, I recommend keeping the mana reduction, but reducing the poison effect.


Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
JilakoDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 1:01 PM | Message # 6
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Well, i'm not sure that the poison effect for daggers is greater due to the fact that there isn't fixed duration, it is random.
Quote
Second of all, it's easier to hit an enemy with daggers

Easier maybe (well, i disagree, but my dark messiah version is insanely bugged..) but more dangerous because you have to come at melee range.
Also, a slash won't always make the trick (for exemple against a warrior). Also when you backstab with special daggers, it will consume your mana without inflicting any effect.
About Mortal strike, I would agre with you about
Quote
if you make one successful hit with them, you've basically almost killed the opponent,
if the bleeding effect was faster, but it will take some times to get the enemy to 1 hp, so if it's a warrior, he'll have lot of time to make you regretting to have touched him. Without speaking of the fact that it can be healed (Screw you, fake description!) and that it stops after a small time, so if warrior use last stand, he won't go to 1 hp.

And yes, there are almost no people playing theses daggers whereas they could be nice weapon. On assa skill tree, which skills are really used? (so, no passive skill) Bombs...


L'enfer, c'est les autres.
 
StBDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 1:55 PM | Message # 7
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I say they are good weapons i use posion dagger's to get chance in running out or taking from battle one enemy[in the training ] or posioning warrior for another warrior or rest of team

As for bleeding one i would use them as well on trainings but mana cost is too great for me

Oi and bombs always will be best then those dagger due to 1 hit kill and posion and actually fear for them and radius and stuff but those are too much predicable [lol at ppl whu whine on bombs]

Message edited by StB - Saturday, 2011-05-07, 1:57 PM
 
BambamDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 3:34 PM | Message # 8
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I think trying to reduce the mana cost would be a nice idea, however I suggest doing it extremely carefully, and rather reduce it too little than too much.

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Message edited by Bambam - Saturday, 2011-05-07, 11:38 PM
 
TuralyonDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 4:13 PM | Message # 9
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Agreed with Bam.
Quote (Jilako)
Easier maybe (well, i disagree, but my dark messiah version is insanely bugged..) but more dangerous because you have to come at melee range.
Also, a slash won't always make the trick (for exemple against a warrior). Also when you backstab with special daggers, it will consume your mana without inflicting any effect.

Ok, against a Warrior you can't do it really easy, but you have bombs for that, no?
Against an Assassin, you will both stance - and sometimes you can fast switch to poison daggers and slash him once, and the job is done.
For Archers, you can always slash an Archer ... he might hit you in the process, but nothing can be perfect.
About the failed backstab, I agree that it consumes way too much mana.


Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
FuzzDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 4:16 PM | Message # 10
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I don't think the manacost should be reduced at all. The daggers are fine as they are. It's meant to be a teamwork tool. If you want easy kills go bombs. Besides let's say you got poison daggers and you stance a warrior. If you hit, and he hits as well. Normaly his blow would cancel yours. It still does, but the poison will proc onto him. As for any other class it can be slashed on, or stanced on. Assassin versus assassin, let's take that example. You both stance, and it clangs. But the guy using poison daggers will proc poison on you. I'd love to see some dagger play as well. But don't reduce the manacost. It's intended to be a teamplay tool, more than a "Kill" tool as the bombs are. Besides what makes the dagger play so fun, is the fact that its somewhat more difficult than running around bombing everyone, am I right? As for the telebugs, i'm sorry for everyone who has them, I have them too. That doesn't mean I want warriors leap to have less recovering time becouse I miss it.

Turalyon - "Fuzzy wuzzy was a bear, fuzzy wuzzy had no hair, so fuzzy wuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he!?"
 
TuralyonDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 4:20 PM | Message # 11
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I disagree.
I haven't seen a single Assassin except for Jil and Stan to use them. And even they are very skilled Assassins and still don't always succeed.
And why it's not used that much, even for a simple teamplay, it's because it has too high mana cost.


Your reasoning is excellent -- it's only your basic assumptions that are wrong.
 
JilakoDate: Saturday, 2011-05-07, 8:29 PM | Message # 12
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Quote
That doesn't mean I want warriors leap to have less recovering time becouse I miss it.

In my opinion,you can't compare leap and special daggers, even on telebugs etc.. due to the fact that if you success your leap, the enemy will die whereas with special daggers, enemy will still be there,ready to kill you, even if you've hit him. And you can trigger leap as much as you want, you just need stamina which won't disappear for an unknown reason.
Quote
It's intended to be a teamplay tool, more than a "Kill" tool as the bombs are.

No, YOU consider it as a teamplay tool, that doesn't mean it has to be played only for teamplay. With a good mana cost, assassin can kill enemies by hiting with poison then bleed. Plus, in a clan war, using bombs often leads to teamkills whereas with special daggers, you can control your hits (i mean that if you don't want to damage your ally, you can) and still be effective vs a warrior or a dangerous enemy.


L'enfer, c'est les autres.
 
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